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Author Topic: * DefleMask v0.12.0 Pre-Release *  (Read 69954 times)

Offline Delek

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2015, 12:06:33 PM »
The reasons you mentioned are bugs that will be not present on the final release, if you insist I could add a checkbox at the side of the VGM version selector to enable or disable the vgm_cmp pass. But the idea is to define loop points inside the tracker, I don't see why a external program would be necessary because that will mean a DefleMask problem at first place.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 12:11:25 PM by Delek »

Offline mihaelkyeah

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2015, 12:46:41 PM »
To make files smaller and shorter loops for quicker fade out when playing on VGMplay compatible players.

However, I just made a random test VGM with the new DefleMask and the trimming with vgm_trim works just fine. o.o
I don't know why the readme file in ValleyBell's tools said it wouldn't. Sorry for the inconvenience!

Offline Raijin

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2015, 06:53:16 PM »
Hi. Just thought I would point out Deflemask doesn't seem to have the C-0 note. It only goes down as far as C#0 for now.

I have been using Deflemask normally for a cover to test it out, and so far everything seems normal (For Genesis, of course, besides those missing features).
I still have to strongly suggest using the YM2612 native output rate (53267Hz) instead of 44100Hz though.

Offline Delek

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2015, 08:21:07 PM »
I still have to strongly suggest using the YM2612 native output rate (53267Hz) instead of 44100Hz though.
I've done some test using it, but having to re-sample it back to 44100Hz in order to output in the PC makes the idea very poor in the cost-benefit ratio (almost no difference in audio, but more CPU use) :(

However, I just made a random test VGM with the new DefleMask and the trimming with vgm_trim works just fine. o.o
I don't know why the readme file in ValleyBell's tools said it wouldn't. Sorry for the inconvenience!
Please confirm that we will not have problems with this in the future. Maybe asking to ValleyBell? :)

Offline Raijin

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2015, 08:46:49 PM »
Is the CPU really so much higher with the native rate? Hm... How about an option in the top then, to set the current rate for weaker PC's, or to have the native rate for better accuracy and for hardware that would handle it better?

Btw, like I said before, it will almost sound the same with some simple instruments like sine wave and bassy/mid range instruments, but if it uses high feedback (like guitars or something) or if it uses very high frequency (like cymbals) you would be able to tell easily. It would make editing in the pattern editor much nicer with that accuracy. If you don't want though, I guess it's not a big deal, although for people like me who optimize for VGM output, it means many test dumps to VGM until I finally get the correct frequency lol.

Also, I forgot to say earlier. When I am tracking, and I need to see something from the previous pattern to copy over to the new pattern like an echo or something, I have to switch back and scroll down to the previous pattern. Is there something like Famitracker where you can see the previous pattern at the top of the current pattern with Deflemask?

Offline Delek

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2015, 10:04:44 PM »
Is there something like Famitracker where you can see the previous pattern at the top of the current pattern with Deflemask?
Curiously I was adding just that yesterday. The next pre-release update will include this.

Offline Delek

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2015, 03:14:05 AM »
I updated the pre-release for Windows, I added previews for previous and next patterns.
I will now focus myself in the Genesis rom export issues with vgm_cmp, seems to be the last thing to fix before the public release.  :)
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 03:25:16 AM by Delek »

Offline Raijin

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2016, 04:53:33 AM »
So, I have some reports. All was tested in Genesis mode btw.

Bugs:

With the new pattern preview above and below the current pattern I noticed something odd. If you create 2 patterns for example and reduce the rows count to something small, like 8, then scroll to the second pattern, you will be able to see a negative pattern with a bunch of '0's there. I am thinking that might not be a big deal, but I thought I would mention it.

Trying to open a sample that is 8-bit won't work. I had to convert it to 16-bit for it to open.

Missing 'C-0' note in tracker.

Useful additions:

Something that would aid the new pattern preview would be to cut the patterns that use a pattern break/loop effect. This would further make things easier when tracking. Not a big deal, but would be useful.

Perhaps an effect to stop the pattern playback, so it doesn't reloop? Would be useful for tracks that aren't meant to loop. Again, not a big deal, but useful.

10 Octaves for PSG. I remember mentioning to you a long time ago that there is missing high frequency with the noise channel. I found out why. It's because the SN76489 chip has 10 octaves, not just 8, so that's why there is missing frequencies. I highly suggest looking into this.

Channel 3 mode? You said you aren't interested, but I have a good idea for a way to implement it. If you decide you are interested, I'll go into details.

By the way, Since you redesigned the UI, if you are also interested in redoing the FM instrument editor, I will try to help you with that too. I can draw up something to give you an idea, and I'll try not to make it look too much like a copy of something else. Just let me know.

Offline mihaelkyeah

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2016, 05:21:17 AM »
Raijin: 8-bit samples have never worked on DefleMask, and C-0 was not initially included, in fact in the manual it specifies that the note range for this system is of C#0 to B9.
Also, tracks without position jumps never loop when exported into VGM or ROMs. They only 'loop' if the "repeat song" checkbox is ticked.

Offline Raijin

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2016, 06:17:10 AM »
Thanks, I didn't know that about the samples.

The Genesis does go down to C-0, and technically it has slightly above 8 octaves as well. VGM MM seems to have the lowest C note just for example.

About the looping, yes, I knew, but I meant it would be useful for playback in the tracker itself.

Offline mihaelkyeah

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2016, 11:07:17 AM »
I've heard drivers like Krysalis go down to C-0. You can do a workaround for it using a single global fine tune effect entry, but I gotta give it to you, it does get a bit impractical.

Offline Delek

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2016, 02:46:31 PM »
With the new pattern preview above and below the current pattern I noticed something odd. If you create 2 patterns for example and reduce the rows count to something small, like 8, then scroll to the second pattern, you will be able to see a negative pattern with a bunch of '0's there. I am thinking that might not be a big deal, but I thought I would mention it.
Nice catch! Will be fixed. :)

10 Octaves for PSG. I remember mentioning to you a long time ago that there is missing high frequency with the noise channel. I found out why. It's because the SN76489 chip has 10 octaves, not just 8, so that's why there is missing frequencies. I highly suggest looking into this.

Channel 3 mode? You said you aren't interested, but I have a good idea for a way to implement it. If you decide you are interested, I'll go into details.

By the way, Since you redesigned the UI, if you are also interested in redoing the FM instrument editor, I will try to help you with that too. I can draw up something to give you an idea, and I'll try not to make it look too much like a copy of something else. Just let me know.
I will look into those ones. Could you please post the details about the Channel 3 mode implementation?

Offline Raijin

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2016, 03:43:08 PM »
I've heard drivers like Krysalis go down to C-0. You can do a workaround for it using a single global fine tune effect entry, but I gotta give it to you, it does get a bit impractical.
Well, it's more like what's possible rather than what's practical for these kinds of things. I feel like the C-0 should be there regardless, because of that reason.

I will look into those ones. Could you please post the details about the Channel 3 mode implementation?
Basically, this.

I came up with this a while back while coming up with ideas for a future Genesis tracker. I'm not sure how easy it would be for you to implement, but I took that into account. I have tried to make it as simple as I can think of, while being able to use that mode to it's fullest potential.

Offline Delek

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2016, 04:34:50 PM »
I could implement that by having 2 Genesis systems to select: Normal mode and Special CH3 mode with +3 channels. But it looks like lot of work for only a obscure mode.

Deflemask has a 3 effects columns, we couldn't use them to support the special mode to an aceptable degree?

Offline Raijin

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* DefleMask v11.1 Pre-Release *
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2016, 05:14:57 PM »
Darn, I should have figured it wouldn't be so easy.
Well, if you want to do it the way I demonstrated, you can replace channel 3 altogether and put OP1-OP4 in its place, then have an effect which turns the mode on or off, instead of the button. That way, you don't have to add a second Genesis mode with CH3 mode active. You can maybe have something like 'CH3-OP1', 'CH3-OP2', 'CH3-OP3', and 'CH3-OP4'. Then when CH3 mode is off, you can just use one of the 'CH3's as the standard 4OP mode.

The only way just using effects I can think of is a sort of similar gimped method which VGM MM uses.

For example: New effect '??xy'. Value of 'y' turns CH3 mode on and off, and value of 'x' sets the Operator mode. Then a second effect can be used to set the offset in semitones from the current note. There really isn't a reliable way to do echos, or things like drums with 2 operators and arpeggio with the other 2 at the same time with just effects. :(

Btw, if you're unfamiliar with this mode, it was used quite often by PC88/PC98 composers. Here is a short example of 2OP+2OP mode being used for lead/echo and then melody/bass.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 06:43:00 PM by Raijin »