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Author Topic: > DefleMask v0.12.0 RELEASED! <  (Read 198060 times)

Offline Delek

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« Reply #165 on: January 19, 2015, 06:10:58 am »
Weird, that's happening with the default skin too?

Offline Demick12

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« Reply #166 on: January 19, 2015, 11:54:56 am »
It's hard to tell with the default skin because the highlights are the same as the background sans the red highlighted parts per row.

Confirmed happening the same on that skin as well, so I am quite sure it isn't a skin issue.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 11:56:35 am by Demick12 »
Brains:
MAX 330 MEGA
PRO GEAR SPEC

Body:
STRETCH ARMSTRONG

Offline raphaelgoulart

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« Reply #167 on: January 19, 2015, 05:15:56 pm »
there are glitches on the PCE demo song "snakerider" by coda. some notes play louder after the note off command, probably due to having a 1F effect within it, but i'm not too sure
also, when typing notes on the genesis, 2 of the notes make sound and the rest doesn't anymore until you press Stop - that on the PSG 0 ~ 2 channels (the noise one isn't affected)
volumes and noise on the gameboy are... fucked up. i wouldnt know the reason, though. just take a look at some of the demo songs.
suggestions:
- improve sid export (VERY important, the output sid files are very heavy compared to goattracker or cheesecutter's sid export so its almost unusable for demos)
- you can use my "la bruja mala" as a sid demo song if you want :^)
- there were more but i forgot
i'll check it more thoroughly later, i may find more stuff and give more suggestions. but for now, this is it.

Offline Delek

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« Reply #168 on: January 19, 2015, 05:57:04 pm »
Volumes in Game Boy now uses HW envelopes, so, yes, the demo songs and lot of backward compatibility issues will start to pop up. This is in order to leave using Volume Macro and only use HW Envelopes; because this is the way the Game Boy works.

It is fixed the bug of the NOT OFF and Volume collision.
About the PSG playing strange things on Squares, this is because you are using an FM Instrument in a PSG channel. I added a workaround to this, but remember that using a FM instrument in a PSG channel will make crazy stuff.

I will update the builds in some hours.

EDIT: So I updated the pre-release, it has this bugs solved. Also I added a shared clipboard feature between DefleMask's instances. So you can copy and paste from a window to another. Test it out.

PS: Demick, please tell me if you have the strobe-weird bug with this update.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 07:49:59 pm by Delek »

Offline Demick12

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« Reply #169 on: January 19, 2015, 08:58:48 pm »
Yep. The bug went away. Now I can do stuff! Yay!  ;D
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Offline raphaelgoulart

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« Reply #170 on: January 19, 2015, 11:48:24 pm »
found another bug on gameboy
if i activate loop on the arpeggio macro, it glitches up the sound - as if it was retriggering every 1/60th of a second.
also i think there could be both volume macro and hw envelope, the user can choose one of both - i personally prefer volume macro A LOT to do stuff that is NOT a simple fade easier without having to rely constantly on effects and stuff
and a lot of people use volume macros for other stuff other than simplistic fade-outs
lsdj itself uses macros for volumes (for everything actually) so i assume its hardware-friendly
also that'll probably help backward-compatibility which honestly is a BIG issue since i have some incomplete stuff from the previous version and i'm pretty sure other people do too

Offline raphaelgoulart

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« Reply #171 on: January 19, 2015, 11:51:56 pm »
also if you're worried about how the actual hardware deals with stuff, the SMS should have ASDR
(but a reminder that volume macros are still way more convenient in most cases so if you're adding that please leave both)
also c64 should NOT have volume macro since its global volume and not per-note volume
also you should optimize its .sid export (i know i already said this but i want to emphasize that point)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2015, 11:53:43 pm by raphaelgoulart »

Brallieman

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« Reply #172 on: January 20, 2015, 01:26:42 am »
Can you please post your reference to the info that the SMS should have an ADSR? As far as I'm aware that isn't true... You aren't refering to the buggy hardware envelope of the NES by any chance, are you?

As far as I know all Enveloping on the SMS is done by software... not hardware.

http://www.smspower.org/Development/SN76489#Volumeattenuation

http://www.slack.net/~ant/nes-emu/apu_ref.txt
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 01:29:36 am by Brallieman »

Brallieman

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« Reply #173 on: January 20, 2015, 01:31:02 am »
And cheers for the updates/bugfixes Delek.
I think I have some time tomorrow to check them out.

Offline raphaelgoulart

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« Reply #174 on: January 20, 2015, 09:42:03 am »
well i dont understand a lot about that stuff but all other trackers i had seen had ASDR support instead of a volume macro - i should have pointed something of the sort
or at least researched something
im sorry haha D:
edit: i am aware of the NES's hardware envelope (hertzdevil implemented it on his famitracker mod, 0CC-FT (it's really good, you should check it out)), but i still wasnt able to figure it out on 0cc-ft and since its buggy and stuff i dont think its necessary on deflemask

Offline Delek

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« Reply #175 on: January 20, 2015, 09:53:00 am »
SMS do not have ADSR. What does it means?, that the HW don't comes with an embedded system for doing this type of volume changes. But, certainly, you can do that on software; an ADSR is really simple, however, if you can do an ADSR on software (VGMMM does this for example in PSG), you can, instead, set up a macro engine and run a custom shape envelope!, that's awesome, like raphaelgoulart said. This is implemented in DefleMask for: SMS, NES and PC-Engine.

But in the Game Boy I have removed it because we have a different story: The hardware is only prepared to do proprietary ADSR, and you CAN'T change the volume on the fly (there are some hacks, but them are inconsistent and bugged); so I finally switched all over HW envelopes because I was crashing into wall trying to get the hack to actually work on real Game Boys. Sorry for the backward compatibility, but this envelopes are 100% HW compatible and I'm prioritizing this.

Regarding to LSDJ having volume macros, I don't think so. LSDJ have envelope values just like DefleMask now.


And about using a Table with "Custom Envelope" value, this is what it does:
"2.7.1 Custom Envelope Example
The first digit in the envelope column sets the amplitude; the second digit
sets for how many ticks that amplitude should remain."
Source: http://www.littlesounddj.com/lsd/latest/documentation/LSDj_3_7_4.pdf

You can't use this as a volume macro, because of the "second digit"->duration. If you set a short duration for having it changing every tick you will hear lots of pop and click sounds; if you set a longer duration the volume will change slowly but also with undesired effects. The Game Boy is simply made to use HW envelopes, a bad decision from Nintendo, I really tried to find an useful way, but there's nothing to do about it.

I will add in the DefleMask changelog for this new release that the Game Boy backward compatibility is lost because of better HW support. I hope users to understand this and re-arrange their tunes rapidly without any side effects.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 10:26:45 am by Delek »

Brallieman

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« Reply #176 on: January 20, 2015, 12:12:49 pm »
I have made an ADSR to macro thingy based on http://www.earlevel.com/main/2013/06/01/envelope-generators/
this code... But I haven't been working on it since august last year... I have implemented it to my "macro-maker" but the GUI was so time consuming I was a bit bored by it. And gave up for a while. I also put in a few LFO's with loads of crazy waveforms... But the results are all just crazy SFX... Not really useable as instruments... but I might get to work on that again. It's a bit a waste not to finish it.

Offline DevEd

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« Reply #177 on: January 20, 2015, 12:29:52 pm »
Another thing...

While the GB pulse channels don't use volume macros, the wave channel DOES use volume macros. So, with the way things currently work, you basically have to use speed 1 if you want to do anything really useful with the wave channel.

Offline Delek

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« Reply #178 on: January 20, 2015, 12:38:07 pm »
You can't do anything useful?, if you need:
volume 0
volume 3
volume 0
volume 3
volume 2
volume 3
volume 0
volume 1
volume 3
Per frame to make something useful then you have a problem :P


If you want more natural:
volume 3
volume 3
volume 3
volume 3
volume 2
volume 2
volume 2
volume 1
volume 1

You could use Axy - Volume Slides
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 12:44:47 pm by Delek »

Offline raphaelgoulart

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« Reply #179 on: January 20, 2015, 04:42:27 pm »
having volume macros to do stuff is WAY more convenient than Axy in a lot of cases so i think at least for wave channel it'd be more convenient - so, a wave chnl only macro? it sounds plausible to me, idk
i've been saying so many wrong stuff without looking up so idk, sorry for all of that haha