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Author Topic: > DefleMask v0.12.0 RELEASED! <  (Read 197884 times)

Offline Delek

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> DefleMask 11 PRE-RELEASE! <
« Reply #435 on: September 16, 2015, 04:46:06 pm »
What about calling the system of YM2151+PCM simply: ARCADE? Is that so wrong?
Current system legend will be: Arcade (YM2151 + SEGA PCM)
But module and instrument folders and short name of it will be "ARCADE".

I really hate calling it "YM2151_SPCM"  :P

Offline LukeMcQueen

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« Reply #436 on: September 16, 2015, 06:07:00 pm »
"ARCADE (YM2151+PCM)" or just "ARCADE"? The latter would be confusing if you decided to add more arcade systems to DefleMask in the future.

Offline Delek

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> DefleMask 11 PRE-RELEASE! <
« Reply #437 on: September 16, 2015, 06:42:34 pm »
Just "ARCADE", only under "Current System: xxx" you will find the details (YM2151 + SEGA PCM)

3 Questions:
Could someone become surprised to find a YM2151 + SEGA PCM under the "ARCADE" name?
It is true that YM2151+PCM was the most popular Arcade sound configuration?
Does this will make feel bad, for example, X68000 and pure YM2151 fans?

SegaPCM is used in Power Drive and that one has sampled tonal instruments
I was just listening to Galaxy Force II soundtrack, wow, some nice tonal Bass samples here (track 5):
http://vgmrips.net/packs/pack/galaxy-force-ii-sega-y
(all of them are independent samples)

EDIT:
Just for curiosity, I attached a samples ROM dump .wav file of that track.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 07:14:56 pm by Delek »

Offline LukeMcQueen

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> DefleMask 11 PRE-RELEASE! <
« Reply #438 on: September 16, 2015, 07:07:41 pm »
Could someone become surprised to find a YM2151 + SEGA PCM under the "ARCADE" name?

I don't think so, because that's exactly what it is, an arcade configuration.


It is true that YM2151+PCM was the most popular Arcade sound configuration?

Arguably, yes. It was used by all the major software houses of the time, except maybe SNK.


Does this will make feel bad, for example, X68000 and pure YM2151 fans?

Honestly I can't see why they should, since they both get a configuration which satisfies their needs.

Offline SpoonyBard

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> DefleMask 11 PRE-RELEASE! <
« Reply #439 on: September 16, 2015, 08:31:11 pm »
Real quick, I noticed something odd about some of the effects in the Arcade mode. For TL control, the effects that previously controlled the 2nd and 3rd operators (13xx and 14xx respectively) have been swapped.
I've attached two sound modules, both from DefleMask 11, and with the same instruments, however, one is on the Genesis module, and the other is on the arcade module.
Also, I only downloaded this new version last night, so it probably hasn't been fixed yet.
Music truly is without age.

Offline Delek

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« Reply #440 on: September 16, 2015, 08:44:42 pm »
Yes! Thanks for pointing this out!

Offline Demick12

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« Reply #441 on: September 16, 2015, 10:57:44 pm »
...(a crash cymbal on F#) played briefly before automatically playing the first three again in order...

Sounds like something I've experienced myself. This is not isolated.

I have found this to be the case when I was writing an all sample portion of a tune i'm making.

Observed behavior:

It tries to allocate space for the sample first before actually inserting information. When there isn't enough room, only what's room left for it gets filled with data and the rest of the duration of the sample is the start of the sample space starting with the first sample loaded into memory. A wrap-around, if you will.

Maybe comparing the sample trying to be inserted with the space that's available will generate a message if not enough space.

Attached is a demo of described sample behavior for reference.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 11:06:45 pm by Demick12 »
Brains:
MAX 330 MEGA
PRO GEAR SPEC

Body:
STRETCH ARMSTRONG

Offline mihaelkyeah

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> DefleMask 11 PRE-RELEASE! <
« Reply #442 on: September 17, 2015, 01:01:07 am »
Actually that makes a lot of sense because when I rose the pitch (and length) of the sample to a certain point, it no longer replayed the samples. Does that mean there's an allocated memory for samples that we should keep an eye on?

Offline Delek

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« Reply #443 on: September 17, 2015, 03:43:20 am »
Ok guys, another update for the pre-release!:
* I added a new effect for SEGA PCM - 20xx set Sample Delta. You are just writing to the delta registry of the soundchip directly. Values from 0 to FF. (Open EXAMPLE_SET_SAMPLE_DELTA.dmf) This is what some games used for change pitch on some tonal samples.
* I changed again the System name to Arcade (YM2151, SEGA PCM) also the folders changed again to ARCADE_YM2151_PCM
* Fixed a panning bug in YM2151 that was not updating the stereo memory doing some random things.
* Fixed wrong operator order in some effects in YM2151 (TL, AR, MULT, etc)
* Enabled effects 05xx, 06xx, 07xx and 0Axx for Game Boy only for WAVE Channel


Regarding to the large samples repeating another ones, I'm looking for a solution to this. The way SEGA PCM handles start and end points is really strange (only looking for MSByte of sample addresses 0xFFFF00 and I'm going crazy I thought it was fixed  >:( >:()
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 03:48:23 am by Delek »

Offline 3noneTwo

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> DefleMask 11 PRE-RELEASE! <
« Reply #444 on: September 17, 2015, 04:13:02 am »
* I added a new effect for SEGA PCM - 20xx set Sample Delta. You are just writing to the delta registry of the soundchip directly. Values from 0 to FF. (Open EXAMPLE_SET_SAMPLE_DELTA.dmf) This is what some games used for change pitch on some tonal samples.
Ah, cool! I've only had a quick look at it, but it seems very easy to control. It should help cut down on the number of samples required to use them as tonal instruments.
Also, making the System selection buttons wider is a good choice. The current name is very descriptive, there should be no confusion.


Replying to an earlier post:
It is true that YM2151+PCM was the most popular Arcade sound configuration?
YM2151 + a PCM chip was a very popular combination. The exact PCM chip changed a lot — Namco, Sega and (occasionally) Konami used their own chips (C140, SegaPCM/MultiPCM, and K053260), while many others used the OKIM6295. The YM2151 itself got a lot of mileage, sometimes appearing without any PCM chip.

From what I can tell, YM2151+SEGA PCM appeared in at least 20 arcade titles. The combination had a fairly decent run.


Does this will make feel bad, for example, X68000 and pure YM2151 fans?
For pure YM2151 fans, it should be okay. If they only want to use the YM2151, they can easily ignore the PCM channels.
As for the X68000... It's kind of a shame that the X68000 didn't use the same OKI chip as many arcade boards. X68000 used the OKIM6258, while arcade boards often used the OKIM6295. It might be worth investigating if the two chips are similar, since YM2151+OKIM6295 was a popular arcade combo — Though this only matters if you really want to add more PCM arcade chips to DefleMask. :P
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 04:20:27 am by 3noneTwo »

Offline SpoonyBard

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« Reply #445 on: September 17, 2015, 04:48:51 am »
Oh, wait! One more thing! On the Waveform editors in the Game Boy and PC Engine modules, the numbers that display sample position stop after the 17th one. If it would be possible to have a display of 16 on top 16 on bottom (similar to NEZPlay), it would make waveform editing much easier.
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Offline LukeMcQueen

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« Reply #446 on: September 17, 2015, 08:12:38 am »
Quick question about the 20xx effect: What's the step of every value, translated in Hz? Is it a non-linear scale?
So far I know that FF = 31250Hz, and I think I've found 22050Hz too (B4).
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 08:59:36 am by LukeMcQueen »

Offline Delek

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« Reply #447 on: September 17, 2015, 11:37:36 am »
Correct, it updates at full speed (31250hz) at 0xFF (255).

So, the formula is:
delta*(31250/255)hz = sample hz

For example:
0xFF*122,55hz = 31250hz
0xB4*122,55hz = 22058hz

Offline Delek

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« Reply #448 on: September 20, 2015, 05:35:03 am »
I'm working to fix the samples bank issue with Sega PCM. If there are no other bugs, the final release will be ready soon. Any other thing to report?

Offline mihaelkyeah

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« Reply #449 on: September 20, 2015, 05:42:15 am »
So far it seems like the YM2151 and SegaPCM will take little time to be fully functional, but only one thing, and a question.

1) The YM2151 instruments experience a progressive detuning when changing their parameters, and sometimes just from repeating a pattern. They can go up to two full semitones. The primary tuning of the instrument resets to normal when you play, stop, and play again, but it sometimes keeps getting altered as the song playback progresses. I experienced this issue using PAL clock speed.

2) The patches that suffered parameter changes in my earlier "report" were the ones directly imported from YM2612 presets, to which I found a workaround for by opening a separate Defle instance to load the YM2612 presets on the SEGA Mega Drive system, and manually copying the parameters in the YM2151 instrument/s I wanted to add. However, is it mandatory that direct YM2612 to YM2151 instrument imports will get screwed up? Does it have to do with the .dmp specifications or will it happen anyway with .tfi and .vgi files? (I experienced major changes in the loaded preset when it was from a .dmp, whereas .vgi presets sounded fine, at least before I saved and reopened the project.)

The second is just a question, not as much of a bug report, since it has a workaround and it can be dealt with.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 05:51:54 am by kyusawamura »